Interview走访 | Late Troubles
Late Troubles
Chen Xi, frontman of the influential post-punk trio Snapline, digs into his bonafide indie pop chops - evoking everything from Thom Yorke to Lightspeed Champion - as he confronts the 'dislocation and alienation of a newly arrived Chinese immigrant in America’ and the language barriers that follow him every step of the way. Along with the help of Toronto producer Zuo Wei (aka WISEFAKE), Xi has crafted a bewitching and lyrically lush ode to the complexities of being in a foreign place, finding comfort (offbeat as it may be) in the strangest of times. I was lucky enough to ask Chen Xi, the man behind Late Troubles, about his relocation to the US (where he works for Microsoft in Washington) and the other influences found within his latest.
陈曦,新一代极具影响力的后朋克三人乐队Snapline的主唱, 在面对其来自中国的美国新移民身份时所产生的错位感和疏远感以及生活中的每一步所伴随着的语言障碍时，尝试不断发掘个人的独立流行音乐创作力，聆听他的作品唤醒了对从Thom Yorke到Lightspeed Champion的一切记忆。在多伦多制作人Zuo Wei（又名WISEFAKE)的帮助下，陈曦为身处异国他乡由来的错综复杂的生活感悟精心制作了一支令人着迷又充满诗意的颂歌，在最魔幻的日子里寻找慰藉（又或许是另类）。我有幸采访了Last Troubles的主脑Chen Xi，听他讲了
Q: While this is far from the first time you’ve used the English language in your music, this is the first time you’ve so earnestly struggled with how it was presented in your music. Why is that? What’s the core difference with how you approach this EP (as compared to Snapline) and utilized the language?
这显然不是你第一次用英文写歌了，但这次你很在意英文文本在音乐中的表现力，为什么？这张新EP和以往Snapline的专辑在歌词创作上有什么不同？
A: The core difference is - with this EP I was practicing writing songs that can still stand sing-able if stripped down all the production and arrangements. On Snapline songs the vocal is more about an element adding to the sound the band is trying to craft. But with Late Troubles I want to bring more “songwriter” aspect to the picture. To achieve this, it requires a different craftsmanship on the writing for this Late Troubles EP. The idea is to get to a certain (probably entry) level that the songs can be scrutinized by a native speaker or say by a regular US indie music standard. I guess that’s where the struggles come from – I don’t have the confidence at all if I can make it. I suspect I would never be as good as the songwriters (or the poets, essayists, novelists) I look up to. And I live with that anxiety every day.
最大的不同在于：这张EP里的作品，在刨去所有的编排和制作之后，仍是可以弹唱的歌谣。Snapline以往的作品更多是把人声当作乐器，而Late Troubles增添了更多唱作人风格的成分，这需要不同的创作技巧。我希望达到美国本土独立唱作人的词曲创作水平，但自己的英文暂时还达不到母语级别，我甚至怀疑自己永远比不上那些我喜欢的唱作人（或者诗人，散文家，小说家），这让我感觉压力山大。
Q: There’s an honesty to your lyrics that often reads like a diary - what was the catalyst for these songs, particularly on ‘A Fan Letter’?
你的歌词坦诚得就像日记。是什么促使你写了像A Fan Letter这样的歌？
A: Thanks for recognizing that. The lyrics are more or less about conversations with myself, or some fantasized image. This American musician is my hero. I’m so inspired by how she captures the sentiments with great accuracy in her songwriting, while still keeping a good balanced variety in the album productions. And she’s also a role model of working hard and self-discipline. I went to see her performance in Seattle last year (summer 2019). It was the first and only time I went to her set. The performance was mind blowing. I was shocked and couldn’t get over it the whole weekend. To cope with it I started writing a fan letter, or more like you said, a diary entry, reflecting my observations that sunny Friday afternoon, as well as my emotional reactions. Several weeks after it became a song. At some point I tried to search online to see if I can send my Snapline and LT records to her management or label but I finally got over it. I don’t expect she would ever know about this song or my music. This song itself is already a gift to me.
谢谢你注意到这一点。这首歌其实有点自言自语，或者说自我想象。信是写给一个美国音乐人，我的偶像。她既能精确捕捉歌曲中的情绪细节，又能保持多样化而平衡的专辑格局，这让我很受启发。艺术创作之外，她勤奋自律的工作态度也让我钦佩。2019年夏天我终于在西雅图看了她的现场，实在震撼，整个周末我都在余震中回味，忍不住写了一封粉丝信给她。正如你所说，这的确像一篇日记，记录了那个明媚周末午后的思绪，不久就成了一首歌。有一段我很想把Snapline和Late Troubles的专辑发给她的经纪和厂牌，不过后来打消了这个念头。我没指望她知道我，这首歌本身就是最好的纪念了。
Q: Chinese musicians and bands have often said in the past they’re able to express themselves better in the English language. How much truth is there to that?
国内音乐人经常标榜自己更擅长用英文写歌。这是真的吗？
A: From the perspective that we got heavy influence from western music, and inspired by the songs that are written in English, it makes sense these bands may feel more “natural” to have English lyrics go with the music they play. However, personally, being blunt, 90% of this “better express in English” statement is bullshit. There’re lots of Chinese bands/musicians writing Chinese and they’re so good. My recent opinion on writing English lyrics as non-native English speaker is – there’re two kinds of the writing: 1) write with instincts, capturing the raw, the alienness; 2) study hard and fine-tune the writing to be good by native English literature standard. (Of course, there’re already great writers their works feel like #1 but actually accomplished via #2.) For Chinese musicians writing in English, a lot of us fall into the category #1, and the problem with this approach is the chance of being good is pretty low. Looking back at the songs I wrote for Snapline, they could have been better from the #2 perspective, but to be fair, I’m still happy I wrote them because I won’t be able to write like that again as I’m not that young anymore.
作为在西方音乐和英文歌曲强烈影响下成长起来的国内音乐人，用英文进行创作可能更容易上手，但恕我直言，这并不能说明其中的语言表达是到位的。其实有很多国内音乐人用母语创作，而且作品非常优秀。我把非母语进行的英文歌词创作分为两种：第一种是直觉的、散装的、非母语而导致疏离感的土法炮制；第二种是经过学习和锤炼而成的文学化的书面英语。就国内音乐人而言，大多数可以归为第一种，而且这种创作方式产出佳作的几率渺茫。回顾我写给Snapline的歌词，其实还有很多发展的空间，但我也不后悔，毕竟现在的我再也写不出那种青涩的东西了。
Q: It’s amazing how atmospheric and fluid the production is on these four tracks - how did you settle on the direction of the sound for this EP? When did WISEFAKE become a part of the picture? What’s your relationship with each other?
这四首歌的制作很棒，呈现了一种空灵的流动的状态，你是怎么设定这张EP的基调的？WISEFAKE和你是如何合作的？你们是一种什么样的关系？
A: Thank you! A main purpose of this EP is to explore and experiment the production ideas for the next full-length Late Troubles album. I’m looking for a combination of drum-machine / synth / sampler based beats and acoustic instruments. And I also tried to get a sweet spot of the vocal processing, to be a little unique and consistent. So we applied this principal to all the tracks. I’ve known Zuo Wei (WISEFAKE) for very long time since he was still playing gigs in Beijing with Wanderlust. After I moved to US we chat online from time to time. Last year when I decided to work on the new EP, I needed someone who has richer producing experience and complementary skills and Zuo Wei is a perfect match. So I asked him and he’s onboard right away. Because we live in different cities with 3 hour time difference, the collaboration highly relies on Wechat and emails. I send my initial recording files to him and he adds more stuff on top of it and then send back. I would send feedbacks and more recordings and then he sends back new bounces. We did this back and forth for months. I think the key in this relationship is trust – I fully trust his producing skills and aesthetics and the capability of realizing the vision. Otherwise, remote collaboration won’t work without this trust.
谢谢！这张EP的主要目的是探索和实验，我们想知道接下来Late Troubles的全长专辑可以做成什么样。我想把鼓机/合成器/采样节奏/原声乐器组合在一起，也想找到一种独特又自洽的人声效果，这些想法贯穿了整张EP的制作。我和WISEFAKE很早就认识了，当时他还在北京Wanderlust乐队。我搬到美国后，和他在网上也一直有联系。去年我决定做EP的时候，需要一个制作经验丰富、技能格全面的音乐人合作，他就是我脑海里的最佳人选，我们一拍即合。我把初始录音发给他，他在基础上进行修改，就这样完成了持续数月跨越时差和距离的往返投递。我认为维系这种远程合作关系需要足够的信任。我完全信任他的制作技术、美学理念以及实现整个作品的能力。
Q: For the music geeks out there - what sort of equipment or synthesizers did you use for this EP?
替器材控问一句，你在这张EP里用了哪些合成器和设备？
A: So glad you asked! I used my OP1, Yamaha YC, Prophet-6, MS-20 Mini and a modular set for most of the synth sound. And for piano I got a Zarenbourg and a Kawai upright. I also used MachineDrum with Analog Heat for the drums. A Taylor GS mini and a Martin 15M were used to dub the acoustic guitar sound and the samples went through an Octatrack for time stretching. For sure I also used my favorite ukulele with a heavy reverb and delay. Zuo Wei added a bunch of software synth and drums as well.
你问得太好了！合成器有OP1, Yamaha YC, Prophet-6, MS-20 Mini 和一个modular set，钢琴是Zarenbourg和Kawai，鼓用了MachineDrum with Analog Heat，原声吉他用Taylor GS mini和Martin 15M，还用了Octatrack。我还用了加混响和延迟效果的尤克里里，WISEFAKE也加了一些软音源。
Q: Your work at Microsoft must be demanding but I never get it sense it spills over into your music - do you ever wonder about the correlation between the two?
你在微软的工作强度很大，但是对音乐创作好像没什么影响，对你来说工作和创作两者有相关性吗？
A: Yes my day job at Microsoft keeps me very busy. It’s also part of my everyday struggle to get spare time for music. However, I managed to isolate this full-time job from my creative activities. I need the job to support the family. I need the health insurance and 401K. And I actually work very hard. But it’s a very different thing (or zone?) to live as a musician, even minimal part-time.
对，白天的工作很忙，我也在抢救更多时间给音乐。我觉得我成功把工作隔离在音乐创作之外了。我需要工作赚钱养家，需要医疗和养老保险，但做音乐的时候我好像活在另一个时空。
Q: Would you consider yourself assimilated at this point? Is it seamless or is it more like an on/off switch depending on the situation? Where does the issue of a 'language barrier' most commonly become an issue?
你觉得自己已经融入美国生活了吗？是无缝衔接的融入？还是在不同场景有个全或无的融入开关？什么情况会觉得还有语言障碍？
A: Once you get Costco membership you’re US suburb assimilated already, right? (Just kidding.) I don’t have a good answer to this because the definition of “assimilated” is still vague to me. Part of me would think a first generation immigrant could never fully assimilated. Maybe it’s like meritocracy – Costco membership, 5 points, going to church, 10 points, owning a gun, 10 points, wearing local football team jersey on game days, 50 points...
你拿到costco会员卡的时候，就融入美国郊区生活了，对吗（开玩笑）？我不知道该怎么回答，因为融入对我来说是个模糊的概念。有一部分意识提醒我第一代移民永远不可能完全融入。可能就像精英教育评分机制：有costco会员卡得5分，去教堂得5分，有枪得10分，在开赛日穿当地橄榄球队队服得50分…
To me, the language barrier issue is mainly about – I started reading books by Chinese/Asian American writers and I’m fascinated by the immigrant history and sentiments. I wonder when my writing can be any close to this good. And at the same time, most of my Chinese immigrant friends don’t read these books at all. There’s a gap. The gap might be the most common form of the barrier.
对我来说，语言障碍出现在阅读文学作品的时候：我惊叹于亚裔美国人对移民故事娴熟的演绎，我不知道自己的写作什么时候可以接近他们的水平，而大多数第一代移民却很少关注这些作品。
Q: Are there any expressions and sayings in the English language, particularly ones you’ve picked up since relocating, that you find yourself drawn to?
在你搬到美国工作以后，学会了什么新词吗？
A: Well this is not something you would use day to day but a phrase I learned last year and probably won’t never forget. In her book “Chinese in America”, Iris Chang took one step further on top of how Ronald Takaki used to call Chinese and Asian Americans – “strangers on both shores”. It captures the nuances so accurately – “a people regarded by two nations as too Chinese to be American, and too American to be Chinese”.
我去年发现了一个词，不太常用但是一直没忘。Iris Chang在她的小说“Chinese in America”里面用到这个词（比Ronald Takaki描述的中国人和亚裔美国人更进一步）：“strangers on both shores”两岸的异乡人。这个形容太贴切了，就是一个在美国人里太中式，在中国人里又太美式的异乡人。
Q: What’s it been like watching the the BLM movement unfold across America (and the rest of the world)? Even as an American, it’s been difficult to articulate my feelings about it. Is it something you find yourself trying to process? And does the language barrier affect how you process it?
看到最近美国乃至世界的民权运动是什么感觉？我作为一个美国人已经感觉一言难尽，对你来说呢？语言障碍是否影响你消化这些信息？
A:This is a tough question. I would say – Be more (good part of) human. Read more. Learn about the history. Have empathy. Have an opinion while open to debate. Take actions while prepare for the consequences. Last weekend a friend of mine went on street in LA with a sign “Yellow Peril Supports Black Power”. I cheer for him.
这问题好难回答。我得到的启示是：做个人，维持人性里面向善的那一面，多读书，多回顾历史，保持同理心，有主见并保持开放的心态，要发声要行动但是也要承担责任。上周末我朋友在洛杉矶街头看到有个人举起这个标语牌：“黄祸支持黑鬼”，我想为他欢呼。
Q: It’s said that this EP will act as a processor to a full-leIt’s said that this EP will act as a processor to a full-length Late Troubles album where you’ll return to using Chinese. What do you hope to carry over from this EP to the themes you’re looking to explore in the future?
据说这张EP是Late Troubles接下来全长中文专辑的预告。你想通过这张EP传达什么信息？ngth Late Troubles album where you’ll return to using Chinese. What do you hope to carry over from this EP to the themes you’re looking to explore in the future? 据说这张EP是Late Troubles接下来全长中文专辑的预告。你想通过这张EP传达什么信息？
A:I do have some ambition for the next full-length and it makes me anxious already. I know I’m not ready yet and it will take quite some time to prepare. This EP is a good exploration on songwriting disciplines, production decisions, and attempts of capturing the sentiments. Hopefully the next album will carry these over.
我对下一张全长专辑寄予厚望，都开始有点焦虑了。还需要点时间来准备。这张EP探索了词曲创作规则，制作方法以及细致的情绪表达，希望下一张专辑也能延续这些创作理念。
Listen
https://merrierecord.bandcamp.com/album/language-barrier
Translated by: Angeldust
Read More 近期内容
New Music 新唱片发行 | Never Before, EASYEAST, Bayan Dalai, LOFIMAKER
Mixtape 混音带 - No.249